Comments on: Business Models as Game Design: Part I

By: furrp

furrp — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:27:57 +0000

Well, no, they haven’t totally changed the leveling system, and you’re right, it is pretty much separate from other content, but they have made steps toward making it less of a grind, and even made it feasible for parties of 2-5 people to make ok exp. Here’s a few of the changes they’ve made since you left.
– Signet gives exp bonus for smaller groups.
– Treasures of Aht Urghan expansion areas give some pretty darn insane exp at times, especially with the sanction (a signet-like mechanism) exp boost.
– Rings have been added that give exp boosts.
– Corsair has a job ability that boosts exp gain.

That’s all I can think of off the top of my head.

As you said, the story content of FFXI is completely optional, but it’s also the primary focus of the game. Without the story content, FFXI would be worthless. If I were the kind of player that thrives on end-game content, I don’t think I would have ever made it to end-game in FFXI. I definitely would have burned out long before.

What really kept me going was when I got my static back in ‘04. We’ve met almost every Friday since then, and lately expanded to Wednesdays too. It’s not really difficult to stick it out with a group of friends. I’ve done it for 4 years. I also have a draenei static in WoW that’s been running for a good while now. I hope our WoW group turns out to be just as good.

I’ve spent time doing end-game stuff, too. I spent more than a year losing exp in Dynamis. In the end, even though I gathered lots of gear, it really wasn’t worth the time invested. By far, I enjoyed the weekly static meets more. I haven’t tried out raiding in WoW yet, and I do mean to, but I fear it’ll be just another experience like Dynamis, and I really don’t have the time to devote to being a full-time raid member.

By: mikebbetts

mikebbetts — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:03:02 +0000

It’s hard for me to envision how FFXI was anything other than a grind. True, there were (completely optional) story elements starting at level 30, but when it was time to level up, you resorted to killing boring monsters for endless hours. At least that’s how it was when I played it, and if they changed that aspect of the game, then I have to point to WoW as the inspiration for that change. When I played FFXI, leveling up took place completely separate from anything interesting in the game, and all of the interesting content was locked away behind higher levels.

And it is true that killing crabs with a group of friends makes it more enjoyable, but the very nature of the game and its sensitivity to the level process means that playing with a group of friends is actually very difficult. Our own WoW static group can only meet for 2-3 hours once a week, and the majority of the time, we are not all there. Imagine if my entire WoW time was limited to those 2-3 hours. Sure, it’d be fun, but I can play any number of other games for 2-3 hours a week with a small group of friends for a one time cost of $59.99. MMORPGs promise more, and I’m wondering how well they actually deliver.

I certainly understand your point of view. I did not raid at all up until February. Once I did, however, I stumbled upon something very fascinating to me: immensely compelling group gameplay (you make friends very fast in Karazhan, believe me) with its own, separate, end game progression based on developing skill sets (and to a lesser extent, gear) among the players.

By: furrp

furrp — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:18:08 +0000

Very intriguing. However, your perspective on the level “grind” is not shared by all. In fact, some people prefer the grind to the end-game content. “It’s the journey, not the destination,” one might say. More accurately, I would say.

It is true that in most MMORPGs the leveling process can become a bore when there is little to no social interaction between people joined for a common cause. However, get the right group of people together (friends, I would suggest) and that “grind” becomes a fellowship, morphing into an enjoyable experience. It’s no longer a grind, rather simply time spent with friends.

Take, for example, the dreaded party wipe. In a group of strangers, everyone usually gets hacked off at someone else for “being a n00b” or the like, and often ends in someone leaving in a huff. Conversely, when you’re with a group you’ve developed friendships with, the party wipe is nothing more than a time to look back on and laugh.

Slightly shifting gears, I’d like to examine your definition of “time sink”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I get the impression that you are moreless equating time sinks with the level grind, used solely for the purpose of delaying one’s progress to the maximum level, and likewise end-game content, which you’ve conveniently labeled the “real game”.

From my perspective, the “real game” is what happens before reaching max level. I’m speaking solely from the perspective of the one who values the journey over the destination. As I see it, in WoW and FFXI alike, once you reach the max level, all that is left is an infinite cycle of end-game content designed for the sole purpose of making your character more “uber”, whether that be through attaining purples in WoW, or capping merits in FFXI. From this perspective, the real time sink happens after reaching the max level.

This is one area where FFXI shines and WoW fails. FFXI is a very story-based MMORPG, and the developers have done a fairly good job of making sure that there is ample supply of story wherever you are on the road to end-game. Of course, that is minus the initial levels when you can’t really do much of anything. The Chains of Promathia expansion pack is a good example of this. The story packed in there gives content from lv 30 on up, raising level caps every couple chapters. One could easily experience an enjoyable story while leveling. Nation missions are also placed such that one could experience story even in the early levels.

I’m not discounting the fact that most of this mid-game content is moreless unattainable solo. Your solo statements still stand unargued. WoW does shine in the solo content department. This is, primarily, due to it’s end-game focus. WoW is, at it’s core, simply a progressive quest for better gear, even from lv 1. There is little in the realm of story, making the journey to max level feel more like a mercenary’s life, just helping out the townspeople with their everyday problems. In fact, to those who know nothing of WoW lore, most of the quests make little sense.

For these reasons I submit that one cannot fairly compare FFXI and WoW. Nor can one compare any other MMORPG to either of these (except for the fact that LOTRO is basically a WoW clone). Due to the vast differences in game focus, FFXI and WoW are completely different beasts, and should thus be treated accordingly.

I may have gotten a little off topic, but hey, it makes for some good conversation. Tag, you’re it!